Okinawan Karate as a military art (for use with weapons of warfare).

[Brandon]

Cayuga - sorry it's taken me so long to respond, I can't view videos online where I work, but I should be able to get to them soon. In the meantime, a friend of mine put up videos of the 2 bo kata we do in our Shotokan system.

Shonokon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs87bI_dKqs


Shushinokon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUFyZ4MOHlY

[CayugaKarate]

Brandon,

I believe that long stances make a lot of sense in the spear art I train in. They allow you to cover a lot of ground, and give stability to many movements. While there is no doubt that long stances can aid in strength, they also have significant utility in spear fighting.

I put a new post up on my videoblog. http://cayugakarate.com/blog/?p=153

I am still curious what you can see in the first form in the first video in the set of 3.

-Budoka Mike Eschenbrenner

[Brandon]

Cayuga, you bring up an interesting point about spins as martial applications. With the Chinese spears, I believe there is usually a small tuft of red horse hair at the pointy end, and the spinning or swirling is a distracting motion to create an opening in your opponent. At least, that's what I saw on TV.

Maybe many twirling or spinning or other seemingly "useless" motions in kata/forms, both weapon and empty hand, can be used as distraction techniques.

Shotokan, especially my Sensei's version, uses a lot of kata and techniques in basic training as conditioning tools. Think of the exagerated long and deep stances. These are to build leg strength, and we certainly don't use them in sparring, nor would we in a martial application. I think that gets lost sometimes, both by some Shotokan practitioners and observers.

[CayugaKarate]

Brandon,

Nice form.

Good point on the twirling. Twirling the bo is an excellent wrist flexibility/strengthening exercise, and therefore useful, even in kata.

There is a common two handed spin of the staff that can be found at the tail end of the excellent kobudo segment from the superb Japanese documentary - Budo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzc3lsacKNI&feature=PlayList&p=026FADA118C7A52E&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10

There is a variation of this spin done in Chinese Gun Shu (stick/cudgel art). Check out the Gun Shu form below, especially the spin starting at :40. It is hard to tell in this video, but the speed revs up in each of the three spin sequences. I have been taught pieces of this form by a Chinese Tai Chi master, and I can assure you that by the third sequence, the Gun can be spun at enormous speed. It makes an wonderful whiffing sound. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dolbFKl2zQ0

Both videos above are basically two handed spins, though the gun movements have a small transition section in each sequence that one hand is only loosely holding the gun.

I believe these are a bit different from the one handed spins you did in your form.

In the spear forms I practice, I have some small sections of spinning attacks where I have the spear momentarily in one hand. I train against targets, which I will show in future videos, and once contact is made against a body, there are follow up movements (stabs).

This is how I distinguish between a two handed attack, and a one handed spinning attack, found in the following video at :11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G03MWz9v5jc

This attack could easily be a two handed only movement with the spear stopping at the extended position. That could be both a block, and also an attack where a block was anticipated. But in the case where a was highly confident that the attack could reach the target (say the person may be facing away from me fighting one of my fellow soldiers in battle), then the spin of the weapon increases the speed and force that the blade will hit the target.

That is just one of many scenarios where I have a reasonable confidence that I will hit the target and want to use the extra speed of the spin to strike the target. Kind of like swinging a baseball bat or tennis racket. You follow through on the swing, and don't stop halfway.

So short spins, where one hand releases only very briefly, can be used in some applications.

-Budoka Mike Eschenbrenner

[Brandon]

Gambatte,
The technical aspect of that video isn't great, we were just trying to get it on video so we'd remember them. I agree with you about the bo twirling not being useful, but I believe that it's there as a conditioning exercise, to build wrist strength and hand/eye coordination.

[Gambatte Karate]

Brandon,
 I have an issue with the usefulness of the bo twirling at 1:21 into your video. I never understood that part of ANY bo kata. Not just yours. To me, it looks a LOT like the original practitioner may not have remembered what went there, and put that in. But thats just my OPINION. Your friends have good C-stepping, and nice deep (for Shotokan) stances, however, they both have bad happy feet.

[Bluecrab]

Mike,

Nice work.

I watched a couple of the clips. It looks very traditional - no twirling, no jumping or anything else that looks more gymnastic than fighting-oriented.

Recently I saw a clip somewhere that said it was "traditional Korean staff work" (I'm paraphrasing, don't recall the exact phrase that was used). It looked more like modern high school majorette baton twirling.

Good luck with your project.

[CayugaKarate]

Tracy,

I speculate that as the need for spears declined once the Chinese adopted firearms in the 19th century, so too did the diversity of the weapons. Now we have a number of Chinese systems use a spear with a small metal tip.

I would speculate that on the battlefield, blades were much more common. Here are some web links with some pictures of Chinese bladed spears and halberds.

http://co.91.com/culture/index3rd,3.shtml

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chinese_Spear_1.JPG

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/chinese-spear-tip

http://www.masterforge.co.uk/acatalog/Imperial_Chinese_Qiang_Spear_255_BC_-_1911_AD.html

Here’s a short blade

http://sanitydesigns.com/spear.htm

Glad you liked some of the settings. I live in a picturesque part of the country, and over the next couple of years as I share my spear art, (40 Okinawan kata using a spear), I will show lots of nice places to visit, and to train.

-Mike

[bogirl]

Mike,

I understand that for safety in a public place you are using a staff.  My comments were about the techniques you were showing.

I didn't know that some Chinese spears were bladed, I've only seen them with points.  Having blades makes the slashing movements more useful.

Beautiful setting by the way! Very nice videos.

[CayugaKarate]

Bogirl,

Thanks for the feedback.

I train with a straight straight wooden staff that is the length of the Chinese Gun. (Eye height) This is a common length of what are often called personal spears.

Chinese Spears have a number of metal ends, some with blades, some with pointed tips.

For several reasons, I choose not to practice with a bladed weapon. The first concern is safety, for myself and my students. Second, is my preference for practice in public places, where long bladed weapons may not be appreciated by LEOs.

As a result, I practice with a weapon that could have a bladed end (like the naginata) but is shorter and safer to practice with. Many of the applications of movements I practice would require a blade to be successful.

In bo kata, in general, the weapon is held in the middle, or close to the middle.

Chinese spears tend to be held further to the end that allows for spinning and other kinds of movements, and also provides for use of the full length of the weapon, something that could have real value on the battlefield.

-Budoka Mike Eschenbrenner

[bogirl]

Mike,

If I may offer an opinion?

It looks to me like many of the movements you are doing might be better suited for a edged weapon, like a naginata, rather than a straight pointed spear.  The swinging movements look more like cuts, though they need a little more pulling back at the end for a clean slice.

Most bo kata don't have that reach & pull movement, as they are designed to strike, rather than cut.  But the blocking and poking moves would be similar with a spear.

[CayugaKarate]

Brandon,

You may be interested in once again watching the third video from the top in the following post.

http://cayugakarate.com/blog/?p=89

While you are watching it, I request you do not look at the spear. Look only at my hands, legs and torso.

And while you are doing that, think of three kata that you know, strung together, in sequence. Then think that the spear kata is done continuously, without many pauses, unlike some karate kata that have many pauses.

Then think Tekki. Watch my movements while you are thinking of the movements of the three Tekki kata done successively, without stops. Watch how my movements on the narrow surface are the same as yours when you practice on a narrow surface.

You may want to do that more than once.

After you have done that, please tell me what you think.

Budoka Mike Eschenbrenner

[Brandon]

Cayuga

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGGaasqdYfk

This link shows the 2 bo kata which I know from my Shotokan system. It's being performed by 2 friends from college (I'm running the camera). The thrust I mentioned earlier (and then forgot to post a picture of for you, sorry about that) is demonstrated from 0:25 to 0:33. It works by holding the lead hand out, twisted with the palm to the floor. The rear hand propels the bo forward, and twists 180 degrees from palm up when chambered to palm down when fully extended, and then back to palm up when pulled back, just like a normal punch.


As for the videos on your blog, they doesn't really remind me of anything I've learned, but then I've done relatively little bo work in Shotokan. I did notice one similarity. The one handed figure 8 spins where you pass the bo to the alternate hand (ie, Plantations July 31, 2009 1:15 and 1:50) are similar to ours in that we also use an asymmetrical grip, meaning that we place our hand closer to one end, instead of in the middle. (Attached video 1:21) The way you step in front of your lead leg with your rear as you move forward is also found in one of our forms, in conjunction with a thrust. (Attached video 0:25)

I wasn't sure which video you meant by "2nd video starting at 7:52," as it may not be displaying properly on my machine, but if you're referring to "July 29, 2009 - 2 of 2 - Cornell Karate Spear Training," then the only similarity I've noticed would be a thrust where you guide with the lead hand and push with the rear.

Your kata involve much more swinging and changing hand position than mine. This may be because I've only learned the first 2, so they're fairly basic. I have seen Tang Soo Do forms which are far more similar to yours.

I certainly agree on the importance of practicing on narrow surfaces. I like doing Tekki/Naihanchi on cement road barriers. Side note, my mother went to Cornell. Beautiful campus.

I'll try to get a look at your other videos when I get a chance. Good stuff so far. I look forward to seeing the development of this experiment of yours. I'm sure that myself and the other members of this forum will be happy to lend assistance if we can.

[CayugaKarate]

Brandon,

Thank you for the kind words.

Since you practice Shotokan, I would like to know if you recognized anything I have shown?

I am particularly interested in the following:

http://cayugakarate.com/blog/?p=89 - 3rd video.

http://cayugakarate.com/blog/?p=89 - 2nd video starting at 7:52.

If you have time, and would view them and comment here, I would be grateful.

Thanks.

- Budoka Mike Eschenbrenner

[Chihua-ku]

I wish you good luck with our research. That is quite an undertaking. Of course, your hypothesis sounds very plausible. As most anthropologists very well know, when one culture dominates another, certain elements are assimilated or even hidden within the dominant one. Your theory might be another example of synchretism. You might be on to something. 

By the way, cool videoblog. I like the speed, power and how you show clear movements.