I would have to go with Chil Sung Sam (don't know the Chil Sungs any higher) and Passai. I would like to learn the higher Chil Sungs but I should probably wait until I get my black belt. That and the closest person in my federation higherarchy that knows them lives in Arizona. Gi, can you post a video of you doing them. I would like to see one that isn't at a competition on youtube.