Film: Redbelt

[supergroup7]

I don't know of any striking arts that had wrestling included before jujutsu. 

Hidden within each striking technique is a grappling movement, but perhaps the various styles may or may not focus on this knowledge.

I remember my Shotokan instructor hinting at a variety of additional ways of using a striking technique, and explaining that at the higher Dan levels of training he has had many a Gi ripped by ground work, and throwing.  Shotokan's history goes back into Okinawan roots where meeting at a central spot, and wrestling each other was one of the daily entertainments.  Sensei Gichin Funakoshi mentions that he was tempted to join one of these competitions as he was walking home one day.

[bladesaint]

Interesting wrestling.  I've never seen anything like that!

 Kinda like Sumo but without the clashing and the nice belts.

[galahad25]

Interesting wrestling.  I've never seen anything like that!

[Bluecrab]

...I'm also sure before the Japanese occupation the area now known as Korea separated from China by a mere range of mountains had something indigenous and similar or comparable...

Hi Mel,

Yes, the Koreans had an indigenous style of wrestling that still exists. It's called ssireum (씨름).

It seems to have its origins in the Mongol culture. That would make sense, since Korea itself was populated largely by the Mongols.

Here's an example of ssireum on youtube (link).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDz_ub4uVWs

[bladesaint]

OK, sorry I wasn't specific enough...  in the far eastern martial arts.

 ShuaiJiao is Chinese. I'm also sure before the Japanese occupation the area now known as Korea separated from China by a mere range of mountains had something indigenous and similar or comparable. The Viets, Cambodians, Laotian as well. Lets not forget the Philippines and Malaysia.

 Unless ofcourse these countries did not exist before Japan was established or there was no warfare, physical conflict/need to defend onself or atleast playfully wrestle in those countries until
after Japan established jujitsu and was nice enough to share their art with everybody.

[galahad25]

OK, sorry I wasn't specific enough...  in the far eastern martial arts.

Only for Japan. Look up Shuaijiao, Pankraes from the ancient Greeks and ROman gladiators. Ancient African and Egyptian combat arts. Its been around as long as Mankind has been combating there has been wrestling and striking. Its as old as man has been around.

[bladesaint]

Bluecrab, I think it is a rightful claim.  I don't know of any striking arts that had wrestling included before jujutsu.  Also, most martial arts are now sports.  Why wouldn't a Japanese society use techniques from jujutsu and develop a sport?

 Only for Japan. Look up Shuaijiao, Pankraes from the ancient Greeks and ROman gladiators. Ancient African and Egyptian combat arts. Its been around as long as Mankind has been combating there has been wrestling and striking. Its as old as man has been around.

[galahad25]

Bluecrab, I think it is a rightful claim.  I don't know of any striking arts that had wrestling included before jujutsu.  Also, most martial arts are now sports.  Why wouldn't a Japanese society use techniques from jujutsu and develop a sport?

[Bluecrab]

...OK, it might be a bit of a feud.  Japanese jujutsu claims to be the first striking and wrestling martial art.  Judo and sumo spawned from it.  Brazilian jujitsu is said to be derived from a form of Judo so it is claimed to be a second descendant of the original jujutsu by the Japanese.

Galahad, where did you hear that Japanese jujutsu claims to be the first striking and wrestling art?

It's very atypical for any legitimate style of Japanese jujutsu to make any kind of claim other than to set forth its history. In fact, it's very atypical for a koryu style to make any kind of claims, period. The old ryu keep very quiet.

Also, I don't think sumo derives from jujutsu. From what I can find, it's always been a sport, and was originally associated with the nobility and the shinto religion. I can't find any link between sumo and actual combat, as you can find with jujutsu.

BJJ definitely derives directly from judo. It began as an offshoot of judo that emphasized ground techniques (ne waza). BJJ eventually developed its own techniques, again mostly for groundfighting. Among sensible people, BJJ and judo coexist peacefully. I suspect that any examples of BJJ feuding with any other art would be coming from certain MMA types, and should be taken with a few grains of salt.

[BlueDragon1981]

Its an average movie with a good message.

[bladesaint]

I thought this one was pretty good.  A few questionable plot holes, but what movie doesn't.  The fight scenes were realistic and the Japanese jujutsu vs. Brazilian Jujitsu is not really a feud, but an adaptation of styles that breeds a bit of competition.  OK, it might be a bit of a feud.  Japanese jujutsu claims to be the first striking and wrestling martial art.  Judo and sumo spawned from it.  Brazilian jujitsu is said to be derived from a form of Judo so it is claimed to be a second descendant of the original jujutsu by the Japanese.

 Remember they intentionally hyped the Feud thing up to sell tickets "Or else its just two monkeys in a ring!"

[galahad25]

I thought this one was pretty good.  A few questionable plot holes, but what movie doesn't.  The fight scenes were realistic and the Japanese jujutsu vs. Brazilian Jujitsu is not really a feud, but an adaptation of styles that breeds a bit of competition.  OK, it might be a bit of a feud.  Japanese jujutsu claims to be the first striking and wrestling martial art.  Judo and sumo spawned from it.  Brazilian jujitsu is said to be derived from a form of Judo so it is claimed to be a second descendant of the original jujutsu by the Japanese.

[gar0u]

I almost always rent before I buy, that way you don't waste your money.

Netflix is great!

[Chihua-ku]

I haven't seen it? So far, the review seem mixed. I guess I should rent it before I buy it...

[gar0u]

I remember Tim Allen being listed in the cast, but I don't recall who he played.  (That's usually the mark of a good actor for me... I didn't recognize John Malcovich in Rounders either...)  LOL  I tend to watch movies "in the moment."  I don't try to figure out "who did it" on mysteries, and unless the craft gets in the way of the story, I don't complain about script, casting, directing, special effects, etc.

When it's all over, if I don't want my hour and a half back, I figure the movie served its purpose and kept me entertained.  Better movies I recommend to friends, and great movies I buy and watch over and over. 

Don't think I'll watch Redbelt again, but I'm glad I saw it once.