Are Western Karate-ka overly Japanophile.

[gar0u]

I thought the whole point of earning a black belt was to wear it out so it looked white again.   

Phoenix, if I were one of your students, I'd be honored to receive your old belt after passing my Shodan test.  (And I'd wear it out!)

I think learning how to tie your belt properly is one of the first things a student should learn.  My daughter's only four, and I think she's the only little dragon with a properly tied belt.  As a side note, it drives me crazy when higher ranking color belts enter the dojo and from behind it looks like they're wearing two or three belts, and the knot in the front is a granny knot, or worse...

I guess if you have high ranking sensei with brand new belts, and low ranking kyu ranks with warrior knots, the only way left to identify the sensei is to head straight to the Oriental looking fellow.  (I kid... LOL)

[bladesaint]

 


I hate to keep blowing holes in your theories, but I teach all of my students to tie their belt exactly like mine.
 

 Thats EXACTLY my point!

[phoenix]

Personally I look at how the belt is tied, the knot specifically gives me a great deal of information.

 


I hate to keep blowing holes in your theories, but I teach all of my students to tie their belt exactly like mine.
 

[bladesaint]

If the guy "knew" enough to go straight to the Oriental guy, why didn't he notice he was wearing a new black belt?  Personally I'd go to the guy with the most worn out looking black belt, and ask to join the class.   

 Personally I look at how the belt is tied, the knot specifically gives me a great deal of information.

[phoenix]

If the guy "knew" enough to go straight to the Oriental guy, why didn't he notice he was wearing a new black belt?  Personally I'd go to the guy with the most worn out looking black belt, and ask to join the class.

gar0u, that would not work in my school, because I am the guy wearing the new belt, all of my black belt students wear a belt that I have worn.  I have threatened  to take them back because they are looking worn, but they won't let me.  Sooo, I am the old black belt with the new belt, you can't always judge a black belt by the belt he/she wears.

[gar0u]

One night we had a guy come in to discuss joining the class, before the class started.

We were all limbering up killing a few minutes until everyone was ready, and the guy heads straight to Tony, bows from the waist and hollers 'Oss'. The guy the went on to ask Tony if it would be OK for him and his kid to join the class, and that he had some experience as a 1st Kyu in Shotokan.

If the guy "knew" enough to go straight to the Oriental guy, why didn't he notice he was wearing a new black belt?  Personally I'd go to the guy with the most worn out looking black belt, and ask to join the class.   

[phoenix]

Walter Todd always thought of himself as Japanese, although he wasn't.  His wife was and he spoke Japanese fluently.  I remember at an enbukai, one of my black belts who also spoke Japanese, spoke to him and he said oh, you speak our language.  His actions and mannerisms were Japanese.  The older he got, the more he acted like them.

[bladesaint]

Has anyone seen the anime fans who think they're Japanese? Argh, that's annoying.

 *LOL* I have a former student who's avatar is half of his natural photograph and the other half an anime charactor which does look a bit like him or he makes a point to comb his hair and look like the anime charactor. He isn't Japanese either.

 My first martial arts teacher was a Shotokan Instructor back in the early 70's. African Amercian, excellant skill and extremely intense, but what puzzled me was she had this strange Japanese-esque accent only when teaching class.

[Bluecrab]

If it's any comfort, the same thing happens in the Korean arts.

It's probably worse in hapkido than in TKD, because at least TKD has the Kukkiwon, which is something of a central, very widely recognized sanctioning organization.

Hapkido is very different. The art fragmented even before its founder, Choi Yong Sul, had died. Many of his original students went off to form their own kwans.

Hapkido is notorious for "airplane masters", or whatever you want to call them: people who board the plane in Seoul as 2nd-4th dans, and land in the US as 8th dans.

I go to Korea every year to train. The training in our headquarters is incomparable. But, I know there are many hapkido dojang across Korea where the instruction is poor, especially when compared with the way the founder originally taught the aikijujutsu he had learned in Japan (which is the way we train).

The image of the Japanese/Korean/Chinese instructor being superior to any westerner is just another stereotype, I think. It all comes down to the individual instructor.

btw, John, that's a great story. 

[bogirl]

I suppose it all just comes from the concept that it's best to learn something from it's roots.  The bad part is, is that many of today's Japanese practicioners aren't any better than their Western counterparts.  In many cases, they are actually worse, because they come here and expect a certain level of respect that they may not in fact, be due, such as Phoenix's student.

I guess it's like the assumption that all those of Mexican decent only eat rice, beans and tortillas.  You should see the number of them at KFC!

[Gambatte Karate]

Has anyone seen the anime fans who think they're Japanese? Argh, that's annoying.

Yes. My very own daughter is so into anime and manga, that we wants to be a manga-ka. I have no-one to blame though but my self. I have immersed myself into the Japanese culture since she was a little girl of 6 years old. She is 17 now and has been practicing Karate since she was 7.

In my dojo, I use a LOT of the Japanese terminology. I do this to challenge my students minds as well as their bodies. I also do this just in case any of them ever venture to Japan and wish to train there. This way, I tell them, they will at least understand the BASICS of what the instructors ask of them.  My daughter tells me that she wants to MOVE there next year. 

As for thinking that Japanese instructors are "better" than any others, the thought is that because they COME from Japan (or somewhere in asia) they have learned the less watered down version of the arts. This is, as you and I both know, hoggwash.

[Brandon]

The best teacher I have ever had, not just in the martial arts but also in any subject, was a Japanese Shotokan master. I don't think it had anything to do with where he was born, but him having devoted his entire life to training and teaching. I've also been lucky enough to have had wonderful Senseis from the States of varying ethnicity.

I don't think I'm a Japanophile, but you could say differently looking at my avatar.

Has anyone seen the anime fans who think they're Japanese? Argh, that's annoying.

[phoenix]

John, I would have to agree with you, I have seen a certain prejudice in this regard.  I have attended classes by Japanese, while I found them knowledgeble, I also found them arrogant, not all but quite a few.  In my experience, the best instruction did not come from a Japanese instructor.  Maybe this isn't the question that you asked, but it is a stigma that has been out there for quite some time.  I had a mother of student from another Dojo tell me one time that we would all be better off if we were taught directly by the Japanese.  I asked her what her deduction was based on.  Her answer was, well they are Oriental.

I had an exchange student from Japan join my Dojo a few years back.  She came in with a black belt on.  After two classes, I figured out that she was no black belt.  I asked her what rank was she really.  She had only been training steady for a year and was a low color belt.  I asked her why she wore a black belt and she told me that her instructor told her to.  The arrogance of this instructor upset me.  When she went back to Japan, her instructor awarded her black belt, I wonder if his perception of american karate changed?

Good subject John.

[bladesaint]

I can understand where youre coming from. I know a Filipino stickfighting system org that has a policy that a member MUST fly all the way to the Phillippines and test there for the blackbelt level or your rank is not "authentic". At best they are mediocre in skill.

 The assumption thing isn't just in martial arts its everywhere. Plenty of comedy skits where an African Amercian is assumed to be the best basketball player, most well endowed etc. Best dancer.
Ive been percieved of the last two particularly and...in that case they just so happend to be correct..but I'm just saying.

[supergroup7]

I think that people instantly equate "Martial Arts" = "Oriental"  if they haven't had much exposure to the reality of what has been occurring in the past 30 years.

My first Instructor was Native American of heritage, and my present instructor is Spanish South American.  I have trained under an Irishman, a Scotswoman, a Caribbean, and someone of British origin.  I have learned that "Martial Arts" has gone beyond the borders of Oriental.  However, the fact that many styles still retain the Japanese/Okinawan/chinese/ traditions, and terminology helps continue the concept that those countries are superior.  In fact, I question the need in some styles for the higher ranked Karate-ka to have to obligatorily travel to an Asian country to be allowed to test for another rank. Do we not have enough high ranked individuals over here to meet that need now?