How to tell a wallhanger from a real katana

[NightOwl]

Well that puts paid to that one.  He did help me learn to break fall better though.

Thanks Bogirl

Sincerely, NightOwl

[bogirl]

Well, if you look in museums and display collections, you will never find a ninjato.  There are thousands of katana, wakizashi and tanto, but no ninjato.  You would think there would be a least a few antique ones floating around.

Or maybe they were so secret that they were all melted down???     Assasins need to blend in, so they also didn't wear special all-black uniforms.  Now did they wear darker clothing to attack at night? Probably.

Now there WERE some variations of the katana, some were fairly straight, others more curved, and also the lengths, espcially of the oldest ones were not standard.  Also with as much work as it took to make a blade, if one broke near the tip it may have been reworked into a shorter blade.   So it IS possible that someone found an older, somewhat straighter, shorter version with plain fittings and thought it was used by ninja.   Or was told by some less-than-honest sword/antique dealer that it was.

[NightOwl]

And for you Ninja fans, they did NOT carry a unique "ninjato".

Hi:   

Wow!!! if you say this my tendency is to believe you.  Yet, In the seventies, I trained VERY briefly with a U.S. Ninpo practitioner who claimed to have learned in Okinawa. I was transferred within days of starting with him.  He helped me with my ability to fall which is now "very rusty" but for over 30 years I've held this opinion.

Even so He claimed that the ninja-to was deferent than the "standard" samurai sword in that it was shorter and that its shape was triangular. I never actually saw this.  His claim was that it was designed this way to give both 3 admittedly less efficient cutting surfaces and 3 more efficient blocking surfaces. But that it was mainly a blocking and stabbing weapon.


Granted, I was young impressionable and in my 20's but -  Help?


Sincerely, NightOwl


P.S.  As I think on it I was also told that the Ninja-to  was shorter than the standard Katana but longer than the Tanto.

P.S.S. Actually as I think on it I think I was really in my late teens it was like 1975 in Germany.  (Hey they claim the memory goes first ..... now where was/ am I )

[bogirl]

Now this one is clearly a fake:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA-3OLEBZUs

The nakago (tang) on a real katana has file marks to help it grip the tsuka (handle), so it should not be shiny.

The hamon he talks about is easily acid-etched on steel, especially stainless.  A true hamon is created by differential hardening of the steel, usualy by adding clay.

And yes, for all he denies it, saying "scabbard saya" IS the same as saying "scabbard scabbard" since saya is the Japanese word for scabbard.  Just like saying "bo staff".

So how much do you think a $50 "replica" of a $50 sword is REALLY worth?

And for you Ninja fans, they did NOT carry a unique "ninjato".  They were supposed to be secret warriors, so having an weapon clearly different from everyone else would have made them obvious.

[NightOwl]

There are good quality production blades that are quite usable for kata and cutting.  Some are only a few $100.   Maybe not as fancy for collecting, but built for use.

Thanks for the hint Bogirl:   I've added the seller's listing to my favorites list.   I saw that he also has both a wooden and iron Tesson listed.  Who know some day.....

Sincerely, NightOwl

[bogirl]

As I looked at the sellers ratings I found one that complained about the blade not being full tang and so that would have religated it to the total wall hanger for me. Then again as I think on it I'm not sure if all functional blades have to be full tang. ....definitely not half tang but I wonder if they could be 3/4 tang.

Full-tang is another word often overused.  The tang on any sword, whether Japanese, Chineses or European should be at least 3/4 the handle length.  Less than that and if you do any cutting you get pressure inbetween your hands and not enough support.  The tang also needs to be thich enough to actually handle a bit of impact to the blade to be safe.  Rattail is generally a bad thing, too thin for real strength.

I suspect it is as you said earlier - you get what you pay for.  If you want a true blade by a CRAFTSMAN then you find one who will meet you, take your measurements and make one for you.  "Not in my price range and most likely never will be."   

So then if true blades are usually multithousand dollar range. (Think price of car or even house)  What and Where DO you look for in "Serviceable" Blades for use in forms or kata  or for use as an actual sharp for Iado?

There are good quality production blades that are quite usable for kata and cutting.  Some are only a few $100.   Maybe not as fancy for collecting, but built for use.http://cgi.ebay.com/PRACTICAL-PRO-KATANA-by-Paul-Chen_W0QQitemZ220544606664QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item33597ba1c8

[bogirl]

I have seen swords that were popular enough (like the Highlander katana) that sword makers have made folded Damascus blades to fit the hardware that I would consider to be serviceable blades.

It may be possible with a quality sword maker, unfortunately most of the replicas are really just built for display, then they put stupid-sharp blades on them.

[galahad25]

2.  If it is a replica from a movie/manga/video game, it's a wallhanger.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Final-Fantasy-7-KADAJ-Souba-Double-Bladed-Katana-Sword_W0QQitemZ250565516932QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a56de5e84

I have seen swords that were popular enough (like the Highlander katana) that sword makers have made folded Damascus blades to fit the hardware that I would consider to be serviceable blades.

[NightOwl]

5. Beware of new blade and wrappings in old-looking fittings.  It's a great way to camoflage a poorly made blade.  Also you don't know how the old and new pieces were put together.

http://cgi.ebay.com/HANDMADE-JAPANESE-KATANA-SWORD-DAMASCUS-STEEL-WTachi_W0QQitemZ370320447055QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5638d1964f

If I was in the market for a replica I think where the seller of this one is located would have attracted me.  The close-ups of the steel seemed good (although I would bet on a machine hammer rather than totally "handmade"
And I seem to remember that impurities even in a damascus process can cause problems in a functional blade.

As I looked at the sellers ratings I found one that complained about the blade not being full tang and so that would have religated it to the total wall hanger for me. Then again as I think on it I'm not sure if all functional blades have to be full tang. ....definitely not half tang but I wonder if they could be 3/4 tang.

I suspect it is as you said earlier - you get what you pay for.  If you want a true blade by a CRAFTSMAN then you find one who will meet you, take your measurements and make one for you.  "Not in my price range and most likely never will be."   

So then if true blades are usually multithousand dollar range. (Think price of car or even house)  What and Where DO you look for in "Serviceable" Blades for use in forms or kata  or for use as an actual sharp for Iado?

I wonder also how important some of these aspects are for a Chinese practitioner. For instance in a Tai Chi sword or in the Twin short swords.

Sincerely, NightOwl

[bogirl]

Feel free to add more tips, these are just the first ones that came to mind.

[NightOwl]

Thank you Bogirl:

My guess is a lot of this same information would apply to the Chinese weapons set too.

Sinceely, NightOwl

[bogirl]

1.  If in the description it states stainless, 440, or mirror finish it is an SLO (sword like object).  Stainless is for knives, not swords and 440 is too brittle for a safe sword-length blade.

2.  If it is a replica from a movie/manga/video game, it's a wallhanger.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Final-Fantasy-7-KADAJ-Souba-Double-Bladed-Katana-Sword_W0QQitemZ250565516932QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a56de5e84

3.  If you can buy the set for less than a decent dinner out, it's probably worth every dime. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/FLYING-DRAGON-3-pc-Blue-Katana-Set_W0QQitemZ140374804456QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20aefd87e8

4.  If the blade has painted flames or etched dragons, it's an SLO.
http://cgi.ebay.com/40-Carbon-Steel-Ninja-Katana-Black-w-Blood-Red-Splash_W0QQitemZ310194394278QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item483906d4a6

5. Beware of new blade and wrappings in old-looking fittings.  It's a great way to camoflage a poorly made blade.  Also you don't know how the old and new pieces were put together.
http://cgi.ebay.com/HANDMADE-JAPANESE-KATANA-SWORD-DAMASCUS-STEEL-WTachi_W0QQitemZ370320447055QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5638d1964f