Author Topic: From a Brit, a US Karate Question.  (Read 167 times)

Offline Rick

  • White Belt
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: From a Brit, a US Karate Question.
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2010, 03:39:04 AM »
The core kata of Goju-ryu (which I practice) are based on lessons Kanryo Higashionna (Higaonna) learned in China over a period of about 5-10 years, depending on who tells the story. These are Sanchin, Sanseiru, Seisan, and Suparinpei. Higashionna himself called his art "chuan fa," or Chinese boxing.

Does that make it a Chinese art? Only if you think of Japanese as a Chinese language, because it uses Chinese characters. :) I'd call it heavily influenced, but not Chinese.

What I'm curious about is where Saifa, Shisochin, Seiyunchin, Seipai, and Kururunfa came from. I know Miyagi made the Gekisai and Tensho, but no one seems to know where these other kata came from (lots of guesses and folklore, no verifiable facts). Perhaps Miyagi picked them up during his brief visits to China; perhaps other teachers added them. I can't find a straight answer, at least from a source I find credible. Just as an amateur opinion, Seiyunchin looks a lot like the Chinese internal style Xing-yi, to me.

As for Trias, I don't know what to think. I find all the grand titles he gave himself a bit silly, and inventing his own style a bit pompous. Sounds like he knew how to fight... whether or not he studied with a good teacher for very long, is uncertain. I guess ultimately we should judge a teacher by his or her students... and I have no idea how good a teacher his daughter is. She may be great. I haven't seen her teach.

Offline bogirl

  • Global Moderator
  • Black Belt 2nd
  • *****
  • Posts: 3444
Re: From a Brit, a US Karate Question.
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2010, 03:57:21 AM »
I have actually read some of Morio Higionna's books, and I certainly do not remember anywhere that he said the Goju-ryu kata were learned or imported from China.  Some concepts and techniques were, that's why Goju is more circular than the Shuri-te Karate styles.  And yes, some movements or stances are inspired by animal movements or stances, but not actually mimicking them.  Nekoashi dachi (cat-footed stance) teaches balance and lightness to contrast with the very rooted sanchin stance.  Though I may want to think about being balanced and light-footed like a cat, I am not being a cat.

As for Trias, I've never heard anything good about him.
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid beholder a black eye."  Miss Piggy

Tracy

Offline NightOwl

  • Black Belt 1st
  • *
  • Posts: 2114
Re: From a Brit, a US Karate Question.
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2010, 12:18:17 PM »
I'm suffering a bad case of insomnia last night and today and so have read the entire thread that you linked.

WOW !!!  I can see why Sadako, Trolls and other disturbers of fecal material come to mind. I suspect that the thread would have been locked here.  I was out of formal MA for too long for Robert Trias to have any meaning for me.  From that outside stand point.  I think yours and Tony's argument regarding the validity of his rank certificate should pretty well make it open and shut for me.  That aside whether he is a legit teacher with a manufactured past I couldn't say. As I don't know him or of him.

On the original subject of the thread about the idea that the ryu is a tranplanted pure form of kung fu, I think that unlikely.   There is a small argument for it that was missed in the thread but I won't comment on that as I don't wish to feed the fire.  I believe that yours and Tonys assertion that what came to us from Okinawa may have been Chinese influenced but not purely Chinese is the more valid. 

Addtionally,  the tendency of this person to delete his posts and then try and modify history for me is a silent argument against his postition and really rings the alarm bells for me.

Just my opinion here as much of the conversation  is not my level or in my Art.

Sincerely, NightOwl

Offline Alcatraz

  • Global Moderator
  • Purple Belt
  • *****
  • Posts: 920
From a Brit, a US Karate Question.
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2010, 10:14:05 AM »
I don't usualy source link to threads on other sites, but I thought I would ask here, seen as it's perdominatly Americans and Canadians here.

What is the general take on Robert Trias and his system over there in the US. From a British perspective, when we look at the Kata and the history of the system, we think it's a bit of a con-job.

I'm going to break one of my rules and post a link to another site. It is painful to read at times due to the horrific grammar, spelling, and punctuation (my gods...I'm Sadako), but I would appreciate it if you take take a look and let me know what you think.

The link is:

http://www.martialedge.net/forum/japanese-martial-arts/re%3akata-origins./12/0/

Merci bukups.
Speak Soon (John Clark)- 4th Dan

Kilmarnock Okinawan Karate Dojo (Scotland).